Jack McDonald
1/24/2024 04:19:57 pm
"we should never condemn a work for being incorrectly drawn unless we have made quite sure that we are right and the painter is wrong." Pg. 27
Valerie
1/29/2024 09:36:30 pm
You chose a great example to highlight here, Jack. Picasso's version of a hen was a contrast between representing the likeness of a rooster accurately, and representing the character and personality of the rooster in the other work. Gombrich is asking us to consider what we believe is 'right' or 'wrong,' just as you note, but mostly he's asking us to go beyond that and consider whether the artist is communicating their intention successfully. There are different ways to communicate and art is a form of communication.
Julia Vieux
1/25/2024 01:13:16 pm
"The trouble about beauty is that tastes and standards of what is beautiful vary so much." Pg. 20
Valerie
1/29/2024 09:44:52 pm
Absolutely, Julia, our judgments are very much dependent on our personal experiences and the influence of our individual culture and its practices. This is a great quote because it does address the variety of standards we all have for 'beauty.' Beauty isn't just about appearances. As we look at a variety of art forms, and cultures from across time think of a beautiful work art as one that communicates successfully. We will be analyzing and judging the masterpieces on that singular criteria-whether they communicate successfully, and did they for the time and place and people of their time. Our job is to put ourselves within that frame and to understand the art from the perspective of the past as best we can.
Ron Vargas
1/25/2024 08:20:06 pm
Caravaggio once painted a portrait of Saint Matthew and an angel and when he delivered it to the church who commissioned it, "people were scandalized at what they took to be a lack of respect for the saint. The painting was not accepted, and Caravaggio had to try again" (Gombrich 31). What Gombrich tries to communicate to us in this example is that people can reject or dismiss certain works of art because they do not look at it with fresh eyes, but with a prejudice or fixed mind. I am not saying that the church did not know how to examine art, in fact I believe they have every right to reject it if they please, additionally I prefer the final version. But this is a good example of what Gombrich is talking in the intro about wrong perspective leads to wrong criticism. Eventually, this controversy of Caravaggio and this Church lead him to create another, possibly "insincere" effort meaning the first painting is what Caravaggio truly felt.
Valerie
1/29/2024 09:51:04 pm
Your example of Caravaggio's painting of St. Matthew is a great one, Ron. It reveals the importance of patronage in art and especially of the role of the artist prior to the 19th century. Artists created works of art on the guidance and from the commissions of particular patrons. Caravaggio's paintings were for a specific setting and requested by a particular individual/entity who was looking for a specific image. It was to reflect the sanctity and respectability of a spiritual Christian figure. Caravaggio's first painting was masterful and successful but it was how Caravaggio saw the subject not what the patron was looking for. This is an element for studying art that we consider too. What did the patron want the work of art to be and to look like?
Rebecca Wax
1/26/2024 12:49:58 pm
"One never finishes learning about art. There are always new things to discover" Pg.36
Valerie
1/29/2024 10:31:11 pm
So, in your own words, Rebecca, what does this quote mean to you personally? Do you feel that with the examples that Gombrich has given that you, yourself, can see the many opportunities to discover something new in a work of art? The challenge that we are reminded of in this reading is to go beyond our own biases of what art is or should be, and to be willing to engage and be open-minded to discover something new. Do you agree with this perspective?
Dalia Adams
1/26/2024 10:47:14 pm
"A painting which represents a familiar subject in an unexpected way is often condemned for no better reason than that it does not seem right" (pg.29).
Valerie
1/29/2024 10:40:16 pm
Your example here, Dalia, is quite profound and carefully considered. How do various Christian cultures envision Jesus Christ? He is after all God made human. Does the Bible leave it open ended to allow for all of God's people to see themselves in God? How much does our individual and personal identity and culture influence what we think something should look like? People of the past read the Bible as carefully and closely as you have and their understanding of the historical Jesus was no doubt understood. Yes, a Middle Eastern, Jewish man. So why would artists depict Jesus in such a variety of ways? What was the purpose of doing so through the creativity, skill, and work of the artist? Your statement here considers all of these facets. Your quote and response reflects on what we see the purpose of a work of art to be. Thank you for sharing that…
Liam Staunton
1/27/2024 01:34:40 pm
Art as an idea is incredibly vast in its essence. It's hard to put a definition to the word other than perhaps the distortion or delicate placement of earth and color. "We have a curious habit of thinking that nature must always look like the pictures we are accustomed to." (Pg. 27). Art, at its core has always been the visual representations of the world around us. Humans have a tendency to perceive things in a way that may not always be realistic or accurate. This text touches on how strange an entire species can be conditioned to think of things in a certain way, when in reality, if it were viewed with fresh eyes and no outside influences, it may be viewed differently. Gombrich uses Theodore Gericault's "Horse Racing at Epsom", painted in 1821, to bring this thought to life. The piece displays a group of men riding horses at what seems to be an incredibly fast pace. Humans tend to express ideas out of their proportion. If you were to go back to this time and look at this painting you may think the way in which the horses are galloping to be an accurate representation because we tend to express things farther than necessary. Once the invention of the camera became more widespread, it revealed just how wrong people were about the way things truly looked. Gombrich includes Eadweard Muybridge's "Galloping Horse in Motion", an early photo sequence taken in 1872 that clearly showed the real side view of a horse when it runs. Even when shown the real life photos, and it became clear just how different it was towards their expectations, many people refused to feel convinced of it as true.
Valerie
1/29/2024 10:54:44 pm
"Do we admire artworks based on the way they make us feel, or is it simply the amount of dedication an artist has? Perhaps it can be both." An excellent consideration here, Liam! I'm quoting you, now :) And I think it is both that brings us to caring about a work of art.
Cristian Triay
1/27/2024 01:38:10 pm
"There are two things therefore which we should always ask ourselves if we find fault with the accuracy of a picture. One is whether the artist may or may not have had his reasons for changing the appearance of what he saw... the other is that we should never condemn a work for being incorrectly drawn unless we have made quite sure that we are right and the painter is wrong." (p. 26-27). I find this quote interesting in relation to this piece because the proportions and shape of the rider and the mount seem to be off, but they have an almost cartoonish characteristic that predates the style of cartoons we are familiar with today by over 1000 years. It doesn't seem that it was the goal of the sculpture to be 100% realistic in this work, nor would we be able to know. In all art forms, most details are usually intentional and serve a purpose that the viewer should examine on their own.
Valerie
1/29/2024 10:58:59 pm
Your quote here, Cristian, speaks to intention and purpose. It also speaks to the importance of knowing the artist or understanding an artist's style, point of view, and even an artist's influences. These are definite considerations for the modern artist. In the ancient past, we don't have that perspective because the art was not about the artist, it was about serving the needs of the patron. Knowing this shifts our own understanding of art and that's our job this semester-to understand the perspective of the time, place, and cultures that created the works we'll be viewing. Great…
Alex Maier
1/27/2024 03:36:02 pm
“There is no greater obstacle to the enjoyment of great works of art than our unwillingness to discard habits and prejudices.” (Pg 29)
Valerie
1/29/2024 11:04:25 pm
Yes, Alex, that is the goal here! Your quote highlights the importance of appreciating other perspectives but it also considers the importance of fully understanding why and how a culture identifies itself to begin with. There were/are specific reasons for why a work of art from ancient Egypt looks the way it does. To appreciate that we need to know about it as fully as we can ignorer to comprehend alternative perspectives. Art history offers us the opportunity to see alternatives to the same conditions that influence humanity. It's the rich diversity that we can be open to even if we don't agree with it or like it. Fantastic…
Matthew Swaby
1/28/2024 02:09:38 pm
"What is true of beauty is also true of expression, In fact, it is often the expression of a figure in the painting which makes us like or loathe the work."(p. 23)
Valerie
1/29/2024 11:09:46 pm
Your quote here , Matthew relates to representational (aka, realistic) works of art and how people tend to gravitate to those because the subject and the forms are recognizable. Being able to see yourself or your own circumstance accurately portrayed in an artwork, something that is not real, is very appealing and attractive to most humans The success of the Renaissance was based on this specific concept itself. No doubt, your attraction to a work of art does rely on color and composition too. Color has an emotional and subjective component to it, and how color is even arranged in a composition, whether realistic or not, does influence our like or dislike.I appreciate your recognition of that here, too.
Eduardo Galarza
1/28/2024 05:40:25 pm
Page 2.
Valerie
1/29/2024 11:17:06 pm
I agree with your sentiment here, Eduardo…we tend to focus on measuring art as being good or bad but ultimately what we need to focus on is whether a visual art form speaks to us and does so with a favorable result. Does it reflect something that we recognize and that we can respond to with understanding? The goal of the artis is such and your comment here really reminds us to be open to discussion and appreciation with one another. Art doesn't have to be pretentious and exclusive to be powerful and communicative. Nice!
Fidelia Sekplorm-Awadzi
1/28/2024 09:28:15 pm
"There is no harm in calling all these activities art as long as we keep in mind that such a word may mean very different things in different times and places, and as long as we realize that Art with a capital A has no existence." Page 2.
Valerie
1/30/2024 10:30:51 pm
And that's what we're exploring this semester. We begin the course giving a definition to the word 'art.' Creating something visually to communicate ideas and experiences is what a work of art is. The quote you've selected here, Fidelia, suggests that art is diverse but that it can also be quite specific to a culture.
Tracy Rousseau
1/28/2024 10:46:35 pm
"Admittedly taste in art is something infinitely more complex than taste in food and drink. It is not only a matter of discovering various subtle favors; it is something more serious, the great masters have given their all in these works, they have suffered for them-" (Page 37)
Valerie
1/30/2024 10:50:48 pm
I appreciate the sensitivity to this quote, Tracy. We often look at the work of art but don't necessarily envision the artist behind the work and truly the passionate effort they put into their creations. 1/28/2024 11:13:28 pm
What I found most compelling about the reading is what Gombrich had to say about how an artists interprets things. Gombrich mentioned that we cannot be too quick to point out that an artists has illustrated something incorrectly unless you're absolutely sure that you are correct and that the artists is in the wrong. Gombrich put the definition of 'artists interpretation' into an explanation that I couldn't have put into better words myself.
Valerie
1/30/2024 11:05:09 pm
Your fellow course mate, Tracy, referenced the Maison Margiela Fashion show and in that, the models were made-up in what appears to be this doll-like "uncanny valley" style that your referencing, Morche. Is it disconcerting because the makeup art is on a living model? A work of art is usually inanimate and static, less threatening perhaps. But still, a painting that depicts something that is not "real" can be just as equally disconcerting to a viewer. Your quote and your comparison here is great because it makes us think about what a work of art is capable of instigating. Art's purpose is to communicate and if it makes us uncomfortable or reactionary in a negative way then that artwork has succeeded too.
Nelson Balderrama
1/28/2024 11:28:49 pm
I like the point the author makes about the context of art. I agree that it's important to understand that art isn't made in a vacuum, and that all art we see was made by people for different reasons. Understanding this context is important to understanding the art itself. I also liked the section at the end where the author talked about the risk of becoming a snob. I agree that having just enough knowledge that you think you know everything, but not enough that you know you don't know everything is worse than knowing nothing at all. The final passage where the author expresses concern about such people reducing art critique to buzzwords is an idea that I've seen heard from other people, which I agree with. There is more to art than the sum of it's parts.
Valerie
1/30/2024 11:12:40 pm
I think your summary here, Nelson, is an essential one. You call attention to the true purpose of art which is that it's an invitation to learn, to experience something different or new, and to take on a different perspective. The art terminology and the atmosphere is all well and good but when that's the only thing we focus on, or if art becomes a show of status or pretense then our experience with art becomes limited. Gombrich invites us to be willing to learn. We don't have to come to the art with all of the answers.
Norah Gover
1/28/2024 11:53:47 pm
I enjoy how the author challenges all of the pretentiousness and expectations people have when defining art. He instead brings attention to the artist and their process, and how difficult and instinctual they can be. He divorces art from strict, constraining ideas of what is “right” acknowledge’s the different ways art can be appealing.
Valerie
1/30/2024 11:21:38 pm
Well said, Norah! That's what I like about Gombrich's perspective, too…he highlights the process and the human component in the creation of art. Only a small percentage of the population identifies as being an artist. Their value is usually not acknowledged. I hope throughout the semester we are driven to recognize and celebrate the contribution artists make to our world even if they are unnamed.
Henry O'Connell
1/29/2024 03:54:46 pm
I found the authors points about there being wrong reasons to dislike art but no wrong reasons to like art interesting. I would to agree with the first half, disliking an artwork for its place of origin for example would not be a good reason to dislike a piece. I do think there are "wrong" or "bad" reasons to like art. Art that is made to harm or is bigoted is often times liked by the desired audience for the fact the art perpetuates hate.
Valerie
1/30/2024 11:52:17 pm
So why would people create works of art that depict hate? How would we feel if a Jewish artist depicted a Nazi being tortured and brutalized? How would we feel seeing an enslaved black child shooting their white master to death? Are we uncomfortable when we see child actors in films acting out in brutal or unchildlike ways? Do we condemn the producers or directors for exposing those children to themes and circumstances that are otherwise inappropriate?
Jerry Bonilla
2/2/2024 08:23:02 pm
"Actually I do not think that there are any wrong reasons for liking a statue or picture."
Valerie
2/6/2024 04:55:00 pm
So your quote here, Jerry, is of note because it implies that you're willing to come to a work of art with an open-mind. Gombrich is proclaiming that viewers tend to dislike or negatively criticize a work of art for the wrong reasons, because that work doesn't fit into preconceived notions we might have about art. As much as your own experiences can influence how you relate to a work of art, you're reminded too, that the artist also has a perspective to share and that they have their own standard of beauty as well. As much as we wouldn't want our perception of beauty to be judged, so too does the artist. I'm glad you shared that.
Genesis Melo Perez
2/5/2024 11:18:02 am
"We are all inclined to accept conventional forms or colours as the only correct ones. "
Valerie
2/6/2024 05:02:04 pm
And so how important is it to study art and its history? It gives those who see the world in a conventional way or realistic way an opportunity to learn about and appreciate something that is unrealistic even if in the end they still don't like that type of art. You have the opportunity, Genesis, at the end of this course or even throughout the term to share your discoveries on art with others and to help them come to appreciate all that human beings create and to enjoy the similarities and differences of our experiences and perspectives. I'm really glad that you're open to that and recognize this diversity. Comments are closed.
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